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Bayler
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Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:35 pm
Ok..im going to break this down one last time..if you dont 'Get it' this time..there is no 'Helping you'.....
Im not trying to sound rude...but it gets annoying having to repeat myself...
Criminal Charges CAN & Will be filed BASED on this:
Quoted(
a) Criminal Infringement. —
(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —
)
Explanation :
1) A person must 'Knowingly' infringe on a persons copyright to be legally held liable...so, to cover that both godaddy.com was officially notified March 12th 2008 as well as the domain Holder... That covers the ( Willfully ) part...
A & C) is clearly Covered as Godaddy.com does NOT charge the Total amount from his Downloads area for their Service, so anything past his Hosting Package is ( Profit ). ( Yo can Obtain this information by Totaling his Membership Group Account )! Which as Stated is being used for Personal Gain!
b) which kinda goes right along with (A) but has a Price attached along with a Time Frame...( $ 1,000 ) Clearly, he has over $1000 worth of Product and his Host Whois Search shows hes been there a LOT longer then 180 Days...
Now...like it or not..the 'Code' for a theme 'May' be part of Nuke..and 'MAY' be covered by GPL...( This is NOT always True ) but..those IMAGES for each Theme are NOT covered by the GPL as an image has NOTHING to do with Code....
So now, if we was just to use the Themes as an Example..all of those themes and iamges would most certinly exceeed the $1000 mark!
hence the ability to peruse a Criminal Infringement Case...
Now..on to Scripting....just because a Script is released as a Module or Block or even a custom script..doesn't necessarily mean its distributed with nuke and thereby governed by GPL...
Example: Nuke Module...while certain aspects of a Script are required in say the index.php file of a Module, it can EASILY be configured as a 'Plugin' which is done by simply calling the ( Include (file.php); command...which..now makes it a PLUG IN to NUKE and not Dependant on Nuke to Operate. The index.php portion of the Script IS governed by GPL...however, anything included through the Include command does NOT apply to GPL.
God i hope that was clear...this is getting to be like beating a dead dog.....
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Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:43 pm
Actually it is still not clear to me lol but nonetheless I thank you for trying to explain. I'll leave you to it then and please update on the progress of your results as i am curious how it turns out.
Guardian
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Re: Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:52 pm
Bayler wrote:
Now...like it or not..the 'Code' for a theme 'May' be part of Nuke..and 'MAY' be covered by GPL...( This is NOT always True ) but..those IMAGES for each Theme are NOT covered by the GPL as an image has NOTHING to do with Code....
That is absolutely and irrefuttably correct - provided the images are not distributed within the same binary as the code.
However, I even when images ARE distributed with the code in one package, although it is all encompassed within the GPL the images are still intellectually copyrighted.
Quote:
...while certain aspects of a Script are required in say the index.php file of a Module, it can EASILY be configured as a 'Plugin' which is done by simply calling the ( Include (file.php); command...which..now makes it a PLUG IN to NUKE and not Dependant on Nuke to Operate. The index.php portion of the Script IS governed by GPL...however, anything included through the Include command does NOT apply to GPL.
In it's simplest terms, anything that requires nuke to enable it to work is swallowed up by the GPL.
In the example above, yes the index.php would be GPL but any file 'included' by the index.php file would NOT be provided it did not require nuke to run - e.g. use any nukes functions like the is_user or is_admin check - in esence the index.php could be re-written so that any 'included' file would then present a script which would operate on it's own. The index file would merely be the 'wrapper' which plugs in the rest of the files.
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Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:17 am
Actually I was under the impression that even an included file falls under GPL if the included files cannot operate on their own. In other words yes you can create a wrapper style system but that system has to be able to run on it's own should nuke not be present and if nuke is present then only the files using nuke function or integrating with nuke would then be swallowed. However if you make an include file with a bunch of functions that don't do anything but support whats in the index then those files would also be GPL swallowed. Is this correct?
Guardian
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Re: Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:56 am
Duck wrote:
Actually I was under the impression that even an included file falls under GPL if the included files cannot operate on their own.
No, IF the included files do not use any native nuke functions like a call to header() or mainfile etc then those files can have any license the author attirbutes to them.
Quote:
In other words yes you can create a wrapper style system but that system has to be able to run on it's own
Yes that is correct.
As an example, our module index.php file is the wrapper - it calls header() footer() mainfile etc etc which is required for it to work within nuke and therefore it is swallowed by the GPL.
The index file then calls a file, lets call it form.php in which there is a php form which updates the users forum signature.
The data inputted to the form is processed by index.php (thats important to remeber).
So the question now is - is form.php GPL or not?
No it isnt, it only requires index.php for it to work not nuke itself.
So the next question would be, well if index.php is GPL because it requires nuke to work then isn't form.php also GPL because it needs index.php (which is GPL) to work?
No!
If you now change index.php so instead of calling header() it calls a template header file and the same for a footer template, then change the sql UPDATE data to use a different database, lets say an Invision board forum table then you have a script which will update the users signature on an Invision board forum - which incidentally is a commercial forum and not GPL.
So NO, form.php is not GPL but the wrapper (index.php) IS because it is the index file that interacts with and needs nuke to run.
Someone also mention encryption somewhere in this thread. The GNU GPL does not state any where that you cannot use encryption, what it does say is that the 'source' must be made available if it is asked for i.e you must provide an unencrypted version if someone asks for it without any fee.
In our index / form.php example above, if you wanted to, you could encrypt form.php and quite rightly NOT provide the original source for that file because it is only dependant on index.php and index.php itself could be made to work with anything.
floppy
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Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:52 am
Ped
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Re: Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:59 pm
ha ha , i concur with Floppy
Very sad for you coders out there ! not unless your minted and have all the spare time in the world and don't care if other sites benefit from your personal time/work
Guardian
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Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:18 pm
It is a shame coders have to go through this wrangle every single time but unfortunately, that is what happens when you write stuff to work with a GPL product.
For theme designers it is much worse in some respects. The images can take a long time to create,slice and dice etc not to mention the actual 'creativity' that goes into making the images (which are intellectual property as far as copyright goes) and I have a great deal of sympathy for them.
Let's be honest, any muppet can make an image, even me. But creating an image that is visually appealing is quite another story.
I also think that reputation has a lot to do with it. You don't see RavenNuke available for download in many places because even though you can legally do that, it would be like sticking your neck in a noose.
The problem with themes is that if someone removes the copyright, unless YOU are the one that created the images, no one is ever going to know who wrote it.
Personally, if I see a theme without a copyright notice, they do not get any help from me, and that includes people who ask me to do paid work for them.
Ah, sorry, going off-topic :(
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Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:52 am
Thanks for the well explained reply Guardian that is much appreciated.
I still feel sad that the Developers for an OpenSource CMS are continually moving towards encoding source. I personally wouldn't encode a file meant for opensource and never would I purchase one. Unless it's it coming from a World renowned source I simply don't trust what I can't see. Who knows what backdoors Authors can put in intentionally. It has been done. I am not saying the Authors of this conversation have though.
Also I don't completely share your views on theme designers as I have heard all too often people defend them saying how hard they work blah blah blah but most theme designers I know can pump out a theme in a week or 2 but look at Baylers clan edition system which has been in development for I believe over 3 years and still isn't released so who's working harder?? You're right not everyone has the talent to produce nice themes but nor does everyone have the talent to produce nice code. Also 98% of all theme designers use images in there themes they did not create and probably close to the same figure are using unpaid for copies of Photshop or other tools. In fairness 98% of coders probably use portions of code someone else has wrote somewhere within their code as well.
But I do agree there should be themes for sale for on OpenSource CMS instead of them all being released freely because people need individuality and uniqueness to there sites and paying to do so helps them get that.
Bayler
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Re: Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:17 pm
Duck wrote:
I still feel sad that the Developers for an OpenSource CMS are continually moving towards encoding source. I personally wouldn't encode a file meant for opensource and never would I purchase one. Unless it's it coming from a World renowned source I simply don't trust what I can't see. Who knows what backdoors Authors can put in intentionally. It has been done. I am not saying the Authors of this conversation have though.
I would be guilty of this very thing, Ive both Encoded OpenSource GPL Scripting to protect modifications, or access to my code. Ive also built Domain Blocking as a Preventative of Redistribution, which simply works Like a Domain Blocker.... Basicly, it looks for a File and if one of the lines prevents the script from running on www.domain.com it simply shows a white page or a nasty little note!...Ive Stated this previously, that it IS sad its come to this, but Authors have to have some sence of protection from Theft, and ive often found this to be the best way to get those results!
Duck wrote:
Also I don't completely share your views on theme designers as I have heard all too often people defend them saying how hard they work blah blah blah but most theme designers I know can pump out a theme in a week or 2 but look at Baylers clan edition system which has been in development for I believe over 3 years and still isn't released so who's working harder?? You're right not everyone has the talent to produce nice themes but nor does everyone have the talent to produce nice code. Also 98% of all theme designers use images in there themes they did not create and probably close to the same figure are using unpaid for copies of Photshop or other tools. In fairness 98% of coders probably use portions of code someone else has wrote somewhere within their code as well.
You have a Point!, Yes MILPACS has been in development for close to 2 years now, and ive never intended on releasing it any time soon to available free to the public...At one time it was, and i had caught so many sites re-distributing it, that i simply locked it up so it couldnt be redistributed...( Basicly i got tired of see unauthorized redistribution of it...and did the best i could to prevent it from happening in the future ).. Again, its a Few jerks, that ruin it for the end user in general...
Good Point about Cracked Software, while of of my Programming Tools are Freely available to the Public, ( PSPad ) is my main tool that i could NEVER do without, ( Notepad ) being my second tool but dont really like, are all free Tools... PhotoShop is generally used by Designers, Which i do have a Cracked Copy, Im not a designer...so i have no big use for the software!...Also a good point Duck!
Using Existing code, is VERY difficult not to do in the first place....while ive never seen any 2 scripts the same line ofr line, its impossible NOT to use duplicated functions...mostly because PHP has a guideline that must be followed to achieve an end result. Thefore your required to use the PHP code Guides to result in what your trying to do. Chances are, Every PHP function is duplicated from the php Authors, but never line for line because whats provided is simply that...a guide..and a developer is trying to achive a goal, which is normally NOT even close to the finally goal!
Also, Code being difficult or easy, the Work that is put into ANYTHING, belongs to the Author, Even the GPL is firm about claiming what is yours or not yours, no matter how much work is put into it...it seems to me, thats simply an irrelevant statement!
Duck wrote:
But I do agree there should be themes for sale for on OpenSource CMS instead of them all being released freely because people need individuality and uniqueness to there sites and paying to do so helps them get that.
This case is True, and is done...Themers DO charge for Custom Themes, and sell plenty...These people even though they are getting paid ARE offering a Service to the Community, however, most themers DO get tired of the theft and eventually move on to other communities that dont have to deal with the theft of their work. Ultimately ...the end result is its the THEFT that ruins the community by driving off the development!
Ped
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Re: Phpnuke-downloads.comPosted:
Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:31 pm
Thats a nice point to Bayler..
I was going to ditch it all because i made my first theme.. placed it as a public download and was gutted when all-themes.com just stole it placed there "all-themes.com" watermark all over the preview image, didn't even link back to my site and didn't even ask to take/use it... i was ready to stop all of it then, this is probably why i have never ever resealed a free theme since..
I know that all-themes.com is in good hands now so im not worried about it what so ever these days..
But your right a hell of a lot of good designers move onto alternative CSM's because they find there themes/products being sold or distributed without there consent.
Im guilty of doing this too though, only scripts though.. i have and do look at recent news and if some good module/block is released i will download it and add it to clan themes downloads without asking the author.. But its not wrong, as there GPL and the main factor is, if the author asked me to remove it i would
Ped
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But its not wrong, as there GPL and the main factor is, if the author asked me to remove it i would